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Thread: 585HE-12ga From Hell Guy

  1. #21
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    I feel I'm just posting testing and guys expperiment info.
    Others might make money off of the stuff. Not me.



    In the process of checking out all bullets/slugs in 585 size caliber,
    it lead to the idea of the little brother of our 585HE, a 24ga FH.
    Very suitable for shotgun only deer areas, with a very effective load.
    And a huge supply and variet of bullets and slugs.
    Same rifled bore as our 585HE, same barrels work. And they
    have big supply of barrels, so we don't wait like for 12ga FH ones.
    Using brass cases they get loads like 577NE which is same bore.
    And many guys like idea of 577/585 size without spending
    10 grand. 650gr at 2000 and 540 gr at 2200 fps not too bad.
    And for lighter non-African dangerous game we use a variety of
    lighter 58cal saboted and lead Minie bullets as well as heavy ones..

    First is picture of a Minie bullet with a seal we made from 24ga
    BPI brushwad, Seal fits up inside the hollowbase of the Minies.
    We make them cutting BPI brush wads in half, without the cushion.



    Next picture is of 28cal Hornady ML sabot with .452" pistol bullets
    of 250 to 300 gr in them for lighter high speed load, for 24ga FH.
    Nice for deer and target fun. And all these will
    still shoot in 585HE also.



    Next picture is idea for the 585HE Whisper subsonic load with long,
    real, heavy bullets, shown with dummy bullets in the cases.
    Idea came from an experimenter, Bret in MN, and with a 1600 gr
    bullet at subsonic 1050 fps gives 4000 ft lbs, a huge amount
    over other subsonic cases guys have made. And can have subsonic
    loads with the regular 750 gr bullets also 900gr, 1000gr, 1200gr, etc.Ed


  2. #22
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    Here is 585 FBW falling block with Hogue Knoxx Compstock.
    That stock helps reduce recoil in this lighter gun. Ed



    Here is some of the barrels from McGowen, with other barrels.
    Most of the McGowens profiled and few are straight blanks.
    Others from another place in paper wrap are the slow twist and
    others are smooth .In back are some of the cases and die sets.




    mitchstoner- I PM'd back a message.Ed

  3. #23
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    Our 585 caliber is modern bolt action continuance of the 577 Nitro
    Express rimmed case, that many big game hunters like. Usually
    set up in double rifles. It has an interesting history, from the old 24ga
    size to 577NE, to the 585 Nyati with the picture of Ross Seyfreid
    shooting one in a Ruger #1 under recoil knocking his shooting glasses
    off, to the Trex of internet fame knocking guys over,
    to our 585HE the strongest yet.

    The 577NE is an offshoot of the 24 gauge caliber, only they went
    eventially to brass cases. Back in the 1860-70s, starting first with short
    cases and black powder, cases built like shotgun cases, called the
    577 Snider, then going to coiled brass cases, with black powder,
    then on to drawn brass cases, then to 577 BP Express. then
    to 3" cases with smokeless. The Snider started out with a bullet of
    .570" diameter and through the progression to the 577NE bullet
    diameter ended up at .585". This bore diameter of cartridge guns
    and muzzle loaders it is real interesting on how they developed
    and were used by military and then hunters over the years. The Snider
    was necked down to make the 577-450 , a military round used all
    over the British Empire, by the millions.

    Bases of both 24ga and 577NE are about the same. Now we have a
    24ga FH, a regression to earlier times, by taking 577NE brass, and
    reducing rim diameter to 24ga specs. Two minute job. And
    stamp the cases 24 ga.

    For shotgun upgrading in power and range, It is all about increasing
    the power in easy to find brass cases, stronger actions, and finding
    reasonable rifled barrels. Same barrels we found for 585, same for 24ga.
    The 577NE brass we make 24ga drawn cases from, for example are
    a third the cost of 600NE brass, or getting turned case made.

    Info about the power in types of guns normally set up with 24ga FH,
    break actions, bolt shotguns,etc. In thin brass 24ga case, 440gr slug
    goes 1500, with about 2000 ft lbs, that's in a 2.5" Magtech brass case.
    Now using the better, heavier 3" brass we got, we can increase speed
    to 1750 fps increasing energy 50%, going to 2000 fps about doubles
    energy. And going to 2300 which good brass holds ok, in heavy barrel
    gun, gets us near 2 1/2 times the energy. About 37-40,000 psi which
    actions hold in this smaller diameter case, compared to 12 gauge size.
    So makes relatively smaller bore shotgun. 24ga, with 458WIN power.
    .Perfect with Minie bullets. Perfect for deer and hogs, bear, etc.

    Great for slug hunting in shotgun only areas. We mark barrels 24ga
    and cases 24. A decent case that is complimentary to our 585HE....Ed

  4. #24
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    Here is picture of 585HE, 100 cases a guy got loaded,
    They are CEB solid nose bullets, and hollowpoints.
    This bullet is turned solid with wide meplat or wide hollowpoint. .



    Here is break action being set up for the 24ga FH. It is done by mono-blocking
    in a .585"/24ga barrel. With the 3" 24ga brass case running 35,000 psi,
    a moderate load, with 440gr minie, it gets about same power
    as some loads in the 458Win. Ed


  5. #25
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    Here is a different look at 585-458 sabots holding 458cal bullets.
    It holds lead as well as jacketed.



    Here is a long turned streamlined bullet in our 585.



    I do like Enfields to put our 585 in, and one of the reasons is
    they have bigger bolt lugs than most, by bigger they have more
    cross section where the lug is on the bolt body. And the left lug
    is longer forward so as to support the case, after the bolt face is
    opened for the bigger case, as the extractor
    pushes the case to the left.




    Anyone wanting to import barrels, actions, cases, etc into Canada from
    here can work through Prophet River Firearms in Lloydminster, AB.

    The here being the US, and with our group here, also having
    barrels, dies, cases, and McGowen with barrels in stock,
    CH4D with 585HE dies in stock, shops with # 31 shellholders.
    And later a few retail outlets setup with cases in stock...Ed .

  6. #26
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    Another application for our 585 HE is for guys with the 14.5mm
    PTRDs, to use our case with chamber insert. In many places 14.5
    cases are scarce, real expensive, as well as most 14.5mm cases
    being steel are not the easiest to resize/reload. Our case sizes
    like regular cases and can be easily reloaded many times.

    And in a PTRD with almost a 5 foot long barrel can get 650gr
    spitzer bullet to the same speed the 14.5mm gets a 900 gr using
    3 times as much powder. 3300 fps. Or get a 900gr at 2800.
    Great possibilities for fun shooting. And tactical use in a place
    where it would be useful to reload in the operations field, where
    steel cases are scarce. A 100 cases do over 2000 reloads.



    I like Enfields to put our 585HEs in, for reasonable cost guns. .
    Here is inexpensive way to fancy up the Enfield Bolt handle by
    cutting the dogleg part of the old handle off and welding on
    inexpensive contoured handles I found, one of which is like
    Ruger 77 handle, one on the right . Something even a novice
    like me can do.....



    A lot of guys are crazy about CEB bullets. Here are light 450gr
    ones in our 24ga FH. The hollowpoint can range in weight 450gr
    to 700gr.. The 24ga FH is nice complement to our
    585HE for the shotgun only deer hunters... Ed


  7. #27
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    For lightweight plinking, deer hunting, etc, in 585HE as well as 24ga FH
    here is picture of 58cal Hornady sabot that holds .451/.452" light
    bullets 225 to 300 gr. A way to shoot targets economically. Low recoil
    but a big bang and satisfaction. That sabot is one made for ML, but
    with .452" bullet in it is a real tight fit in brass cases, to stay
    in place and give good ignition. A 250 gr bullet would go about
    mach 4 with a top load..



    Here is what 585 bull barrel, target blank looks like, 1 5/8" OD and 32" long.
    It'll go in heavy action of some kind. 4th one from the left. The one in yellow
    sleave on top, is a heavy contoured one with muzzle of .980" ..The 5th, 6th,
    7th blanks on bottom are straight 1.375" 585 regular twist blanks.
    One in paper wrapper is slow twist 585 barrel...Ed


  8. #28
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    Here is picture, nice cast bullet I like for the 585HE and 24ga FH.
    It is .585" diameter and 650 gr and these particular ones are a
    hard lead alloy, plus they've been heatreated. They are about as
    hard as copper jacketed softs. These have a flat base, and
    fairly streamlined..



    But to penetrate good and do great damage to game or target they
    can be soft lead and hollowbase like Minie Bullets. Here is picture
    of timber drilled through with .585 soft lead Minie from 585HE.
    Picture is the back of 6x6 timbers where Minie bullets came out. Ed


  9. #29
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    In Canada there are 3 guys there now setting up 585HEs,
    and one setting up 24ga FH. Another friend setting up a 585HE
    handed out a bunch of cases and info sheets at the SCI convention.
    We are getting some more reamers made. Some more dies sent
    here. Another pallet load of cases coming.

    Here is picture of a light spitzer bullet in the 24ga FH case,
    will work in 585 also. Good for hunting and medium range
    target work.



    Here is picture of 585HE we did in the FBW with regular two
    piece stock.We put a tenon on the forearm to wedge into the
    front of the action below the barrel and a tight barrel band
    on the front. Ed


  10. #30
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    Interesting work - thanks for sharing!
    Occam's razor, the simplest explanation will be the most plausible

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