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Thread: And today's experiment is.......

  1. #341
    Senior Veteran Don in IA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by scottz63 View Post
    Yup, TOK's are a lot of things, but accurate like that they are not. Lol


    Especially in my hand. If you don't put your beverage down and swallow before looking at these pics I will not be held responsible for your monitor mess lol!

    Tried some new bullets yesterday. Range condition was total overcast and soggy as it just quit raining 4hrs ago. That was good. Had the whole range to myself. Started with the Mosin again. Shooting the 170g FP Enfield bullets sized .314 over 6/7g HP38. Loaded this batch to kiss the lands, but went a little too far. Had to really lean on the bolt to close it. I'll shorten them up a little next time. Not much difference. OK for a first try. Shooting the 50yd line. I've had this out every time this year and now have an idea what to use in the bolt gun shootout.

    IMG_1268.jpg

    Grabbed the Enfield to try those 170g bullets over 7g of HP38 and SW-AP. The SW-AP isn't the best choice for these light cast loads, but gave it a go anyway. I've had best luck with that in mid/top end 9mm. Same as the Mosin loads, got little overzealous on OAL and bolt was a little stiff going into battery. I'll shorten these up .010" also. I like HP38 in these pop can loads and will work more with that. I'm also going to find the shorter front sight I got for it and put it on. 600yd on the sight ladder at the 50yd line is ridiculous lol!

    Then I tried some new 120g FP coated bullets. Shot those against the plain 118g FP's I got 25yrs ago. I like that Hi-Tek coating. Loading and barrel cleaning is much easier. Shot both over 5g HP38. POI shifted a little, but minus a couple flyers the coated shot better.

    IMG_1267.jpg

    Off to the dreaded pistol line lol! Started with the .38snub. Found some 148 BNWC's coated sized .359 to see if a bigger bullet that fits the cyl. choke better would help. These and those 120 FP's came from Brazos Precision. Nice price which always works for me. Shot those against some plain 148 DEWC over 3.5g HP38. The coated bullets were closer to POA in both windage and elev., but grouping suckage was about the same lol!

    IMG_1266.jpg

    Then another try with the Tok with the 90g coated bullets. A couple changes in the loading. Flapped out the sizing die a little more to get them to .310". Then, I fixed the crooked bullet seating. The seating stem in the Lee die is 1mm smaller than the bushing it rides in. WTF? No wonder it flops around. Plan A was to o-ring it, but I didn't have any thin enough to wedge in there. Plan B was the roll of painters tape in the junk drawer. Bingo! Wrapped it for a press fit, and the bullets went in nice. No more fiddly loading. I wish fixing my lack of shooting ability was that easy lol!

    Shot those over 5g HP38 again, and bumped up the SW-UP to 5.5g, and they both ran 100%. Brass rolled no farther than 7' and found all. Then I shot some more of the Berry 110g Carbine bullets. They still only chambered 1 in 4, but ejected all.
    By this time I imagine your wondering why I even bother with load development with pistols. Me too. I might never gather the arcane black magic needed to shoot these hand cannons, but trying to find it sure is fun!

    IMG_1265.jpg
    Last edited by Don in IA; 05-15-2020 at 09:52 AM.

  2. #342
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    The TOK's are my worst pistols for accuracy, by far. No matter how hard I try or concentrate, they hit the paper where ever they want to. Even from a bench rest. Lol!

    These things must have been used at only point-blank range.
    14EH AIT Instructor-PATRIOT Fire Control Enhanced Operator/Maintainer

  3. #343
    Super Moderator rustypirate's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by scottz63 View Post
    The TOK's are my worst pistols for accuracy, by far. No matter how hard I try or concentrate, they hit the paper where ever they want to. Even from a bench rest. Lol!

    These things must have been used at only point-blank range.
    I blame the grips, that Tok cartridge is just a bit long.
    Some people are like a slinky...

    Not really good for anything, but fun to push down the stairs.

  4. #344
    Senior Veteran sdk1968's Avatar
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    hee hee .. thought for a minute there that Don had got some of my targets posted in his thread.

    LMAO Thats not the usual groups you see from him.
    say what you mean & mean what you say!
    TEC Tactical=SOT/07 i work there.

  5. #345
    Senior Veteran Don in IA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rustypirate View Post
    I blame the grips, that Tok cartridge is just a bit long.
    Ok, I'm confused, which happens too often. What grips, and why is the cartridge too long? They're shorter than a .38 wad cutter.

  6. #346
    Super Moderator rustypirate's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Don in IA View Post
    Ok, I'm confused, which happens too often. What grips, and why is the cartridge too long? They're shorter than a .38 wad cutter.
    Yeah, but have you ever tried to grip an automatic pistol in .38? With the mag in the pistol grip, cartridge length makes a big difference in how well you can wrap your fingers around the grip. Maybe not for those who have hands like an NBA player, but for all us regular folks. This is a also a big deal for me with many 9mm guns as well. Not because of the length, but with a double-stack mag the width becomes problematic. I personally don't like the old school Beretta 9mm pistols for this reason.
    Some people are like a slinky...

    Not really good for anything, but fun to push down the stairs.

  7. #347
    Senior Veteran Don in IA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rustypirate View Post
    Yeah, but have you ever tried to grip an automatic pistol in .38? With the mag in the pistol grip, cartridge length makes a big difference in how well you can wrap your fingers around the grip. Maybe not for those who have hands like an NBA player, but for all us regular folks. This is a also a big deal for me with many 9mm guns as well. Not because of the length, but with a double-stack mag the width becomes problematic. I personally don't like the old school Beretta 9mm pistols for this reason.
    Totally agree on the double stack mag guns. The first 9mm I bought was a Ruger P85. Felt ok when I bought it, but was too much of a handful when shooting it, and traded it for a PT908 Taurus. Still can't hit much with that, but it's MUCH easier to hold on to.

  8. #348
    Senior Veteran Don in IA's Avatar
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    Fortune smiles upon me as I finally get some virus time off. Layoff this week because they can't get parts out of China and Mexico.
    So I better get some shooting done. Started with my bet on the Mosin. 3" on the 100yd. line.

    IMG_1271.jpg

    Made it tough with a 3" orange dot for a target. That was less than the width of the front sight. Looked like a little orange bb rolling around on it lol! First group was close. 3.2" 200yd sight. 300 sight group would have made it except the 1 always pull. This time way low next to the first group. One more try with 400yd sight. Damn, so close. Pulled another to open the group 3.3", but got 4 in an inch. Technically a fail, so I shed a tear for the pulled shot when popping the tab, but doing the happy dance for the 4 close ones.

    Then I got the Mauser out. Not real happy with it today as I've shot better with it. Wearing a 7x scope it got beat by a Mosin with irons. Oh well, stuff happens.

    IMG_1273.jpg

    IMG_1276.jpg

    Off the pistol range with the Taurus 9mm. Horrible. Going to try to do a deal with it for a Star BM at the next gun show I get to. The "pattern" is the outies in the pic.
    Then I tried those same 124g TC over 4g HP38 thru the 20ga. adapter at the 25yd line. Shot them in the 870 with the short home defense barrel on it. To say I'm amazed is an understatement. I wasn't betting that aluminum adapter would survive 10 rounds, let alone put 6/10 close to POA. Used the yellow front bead like a red dot sight, and it just covered another one of those 3" orange target dot. Zombies beware lol! I never would have guessed this adapter would produce better results than the Tok/Mosin unit. The fact that it out shot the Taurus is totally believable to me. That pos has to go. The black marker circled shots are out of the shotgun.

    IMG_1274.jpg

    IMG_1275.jpg
    Last edited by Don in IA; 05-19-2020 at 03:16 PM.

  9. #349
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    Nice range day today here too. I'm pretty surprised at the grouping with the shotgun adapter as well. The old Mosin did good too. Thanks for the pics.
    14EH AIT Instructor-PATRIOT Fire Control Enhanced Operator/Maintainer

  10. #350
    Senior Veteran Don in IA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by scottz63 View Post
    Nice range day today here too. I'm pretty surprised at the grouping with the shotgun adapter as well. The old Mosin did good too. Thanks for the pics.
    I was so close with the Mosin. I think it's down to the sight picture. It was raining this morning so got the bench work done. I've always liked aperture rear sights. The 03A3 and Enfield have them as issued, and want to shoot the Mosin and Mauser against them on a level playing field, so they both got Mojo sights put on.

    IMG_1280.jpg

    That 20ga/9mm adapter will get played with more, but I'm still not brave enough to try a full power FMJ thru it lol!

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