Page 1 of 4 123 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 36

Thread: Warning about SR9 and PSG1 barrels produced by Rim Country Manufacturing

  1. #1
    holescreek's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Centerville, OH
    Posts
    4,302
    Rep Power
    403

    Warning about SR9 and PSG1 barrels produced by Rim Country Manufacturing

    I recently purchased and installed an SR9-T "Match Barrel" from RCM on my target rifle nicknamed the GHG1 (ground hog gun 1). RCM's spiel on the site touts the Schneider P5 rifling, SR9 length and profile and a "Match Nato Chamber". To be honest, I completely missed the word "NATO" between "match" and "chamber" not knowing that it was going to be a bad mistake.

    I took the rifle to the range and couldn't get anything I had with me (various factory ammo and my target reloads) to shoot better than 3.5"~4" at 100 yards. In comparison the bulllpup was shooting the same group sizes with my reloads using a 4X scope.

    By definition a "Match Chamber" calls for a minimum spec. neck diameter and short freebore to ensure that the bullet touches the lands of the rifling. Typical .308 "Match" chambers have a freebore of .04"~.05" for a 168gr SMK, arguably the most popular bullet for 30 caliber target shooting in the USA.

    I needed to measure the chamber to get to the bottom of the problem and made a longer copy of a Hornaday style OAL gauge so it would reach through the back of the receiver.

    2v2JjQ2DNxAjwmD.jpg
    2v2JjQ2i5xAjwmD.jpg

    The point of the gauge is to determine the seating depth of the bullet to get the length needed for it to touch the lands of the rifling. Each brand of bullet will require a different seating depth due to the shape of it's ogive. I measured 3 different barrels (3x each) and averaged the measurements for each one using a 168 gr SMK bullet.

    First up was an original Santa Barbara produced Cetme barrel with a NATO stamp. I will call it "zero" because it had the shortest freebore depth of the three.
    Next was a McGowen barrel I chamber reamed using a Clymer 7.62x51 Nato chamber reamer. The freebore (distance to the lands) was .057" longer than the original barrel.
    Last was the SR9 barrel that has a freebore depth .138" longer than the original barrel.

    Here's where the problem starts. In the McGowen barrel the SMK bullet is still able to touch the lands and stay in the case mouth securely. In the RCM barrel the bullet is extended so far to touch the rifling that it literally falls out of the case and would be too long to fit in to a magazine.

    I traded several emails with Mike Szabo last night, someone said he was the owner of RCM, I don't know. He claims the chambers of the SR9 and PSG1 barrels were purposely cut with extra long chambers and has coined the term "Match NATO Chamber" to cover himself. He has repeatedly said it was the buyers responsibility to work up an accurate load and suggested I start with Berger VLD bullets because they are better suited for jumping long freebores. He was completely aware of the extra long freebore distance.

    It boggles my mind to think that anyone would purposely cut the worst chamber possible into one of the best match grade barrels available. In his last communication he said:

    Load development is detrimental to achieve accuracy. Especially on a semi automatic. My reamers are designed and manufactured by highly qualified and skilled cutter grinders. Having a zero free bore doesn't make it a match chamber. Just the opposite. I'm convinced your knowledge in reamers is limited as with your ability to develop a load for your new build. You brought to my attention that I need to state that these barrels will shoot any military surplus but to achieve maximum results in accuracy load development may be needed. Thank you for bringing that to my attention.
    So buyer beware, the SR9 and PSG1 barrels will only shoot acceptably accurate with a special load you'll need to develop because of excessive freebore causing bullet jump to the lands. I have spent hours on the net trying to find any reason that someone would want bullet jump in a match barrel and came up dry.

  2. #2
    Senior Veteran Blackwing's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Undisclosed Bunker
    Posts
    313
    Rep Power
    147
    He is dead wrong and sounds a bit TOO defensive. He reverse engineers parts for HK roller locks for 922r. I haven't seen any records set with his barrels....
    Last edited by Blackwing; 10-04-2018 at 10:16 AM.

  3. #3
    Senior Veteran pidaster's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Arkansas
    Posts
    983
    Rep Power
    187
    Wow.

  4. #4
    Senior Veteran
    scottz63's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    Central Mo.
    Posts
    3,136
    Rep Power
    226
    Sounds like he is doing things backwards and using B.S. to back it up.
    14EH AIT Instructor-PATRIOT Fire Control Enhanced Operator/Maintainer

  5. #5
    holescreek's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Centerville, OH
    Posts
    4,302
    Rep Power
    403
    The emails went back and forth 4 times yesterday, the denial is very strong with this guy. I get the impression that he knows nothing about shooting as he was unable to answer any of my questions. He's protected by the mods on the HKForum where he does most of his sales, no one is allowed to question his products outright and I think it's gone to his head.

    Anyway, this was posted as a public service announcement only.

  6. #6
    Buckshot's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Northwest corner, Arkansas
    Posts
    11,623
    Rep Power
    700
    Interesting, thanks for posting on it
    Occam's razor, the simplest explanation will be the most plausible

  7. #7
    Senior Veteran sdk1968's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Posts
    2,810
    Rep Power
    338
    interesting for sure .

    most surplus ammo is only 147grn stuff. same for commercial 7.62x51 nato stuff.... huge difference in those & any 168grn stuff.

    guessing its gonna be a really small number of people who load 168's & then probably near ZERO who will get it to be any good in this type of barrel....

    so are you gonna keep trying to load special for this barrel ? or take it out & stick another one in it?
    say what you mean & mean what you say!
    TEC Tactical=SOT/07 i work there.

  8. #8
    Veteran
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Posts
    92
    Rep Power
    131
    My son and I ordered Steyr .357 Sig pistol barrels from RCM in Nov. of last year for our M40A1 conversion. Those barrels were excellent in all respects dimensions were right there and they shoot nice.

    Never had a problem with the owner Mike.

  9. #9
    7.62guy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    central fl.
    Posts
    5,131
    Rep Power
    372
    Wow I thought Remington chambers had a lot of freebore. It sounds like he has purposely made the chamber very "forgiving" to avoid any problems like Remington had in the past when they made their chambers on the lower end of spec. What he said about the Berger Vld bullet goes against everything I have heard and read about them. The folks that I know that swear by them all seat them at a .005-.015 crush into the lands. You may have some luck if you can find some 168's with a longer base to ogive distance but I'm not to sure how much of that distance can be made up. Maybe try going to a 175gr. It just doesn't seem right to call that a match chamber in any way shape form or fashion.
    For those who fought for it, freedom holds a flavor the protected will never know. Those who hammer their guns into plows-will plow for those who do not. Thomas Jefferson

  10. #10
    holescreek's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Centerville, OH
    Posts
    4,302
    Rep Power
    403
    I've got some 175gr VLD's on the way.


    IMO the guy is an idiot that screwed up 25 Schneider barrel blanks and is too proud to admit it. He's trying to recoup his money at the expense of his reputation and customers. Customers who purchased barrels before me have either been silenced or don't want hto start anything.

    A member on the Zone has met him and said he's a nice guy in person. Funny how the anonymity of the internet brings out the bad side in some people.
    Last edited by holescreek; 09-27-2018 at 02:20 PM.

Similar Threads

  1. 1903 Springfield Rifle manufacturing
    By holescreek in forum Bolt Action Rifles
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 06-13-2011, 09:56 AM
  2. New J. Dewey Manufacturing Cleaning Kits!
    By ctdemolay0405 in forum Non Forum Deals
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 06-10-2011, 04:59 PM
  3. CM Manufacturing MSP-5 stock for the M14
    By Different in forum Vendor Reviews
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 01-16-2010, 04:37 PM
  4. manufacturing license
    By mdm2 in forum General Discussion
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 03-29-2009, 06:20 PM
  5. What Are We Doing In This Country????
    By pgp888se in forum General Discussion
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 05-28-2008, 08:51 AM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •