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Thread: MarColMar CETME LV In Detail

  1. #21
    Senior Veteran Combloc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by biffj View Post
    All you need is a pinhole anywhere in the objectives view area to get a full picture. By reducing the area of the light inlet you only reduce the clarity and amount of light reaching the observer. This is true of any camera or scope. The smaller area does reduce the clarity of the view but you still get a complete picture. Look up pinhole camera and you can get a lot more detailed info. On the Spanish scopes they do use 3 equally spaced pinholes which helps reduce any distortion....

    Frank
    Frank is smarter than I am! LOL. I'm ratting him out a bit here but he's integral to the engineering of MCM's CETME. I tried to talk Dave into making a reproduction of the STG45 and I think I had him on the hook but Frank shot me down by throwing around a bunch of scientific facts and labeled them as "problems". LOL. I still think you guys should do it Frank. I was looking through the Full Circle book again just a couple days ago and I'm certain you guys have the capability. You certainly have the brains, know how and attention to detail. I'd even help for free if y'all wanted. I'm telling you dude, you'd have a tiger by the tail if you built the thing!!
    Last edited by Combloc; 01-19-2020 at 03:06 PM.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by biffj View Post
    All you need is a pinhole anywhere in the objectives view area to get a full picture. By reducing the area of the light inlet you only reduce the clarity and amount of light reaching the observer. This is true of any camera or scope. The smaller area does reduce the clarity of the view but you still get a complete picture. Look up pinhole camera and you can get a lot more detailed info. On the Spanish scopes they do use 3 equally spaced pinholes which helps reduce any distortion....

    Frank
    Thanks, I will look it up.



    Quote Originally Posted by Combloc View Post
    It's complicated beyond my understanding Scott but yes, it does work. It's all about optics and, to quote Thomas Dolby...……………….SCIENCE!!!!
    It's beyond my understanding as well. And yes, SCIENCE! lol
    Last edited by scottz63; 01-19-2020 at 12:37 PM.
    14EH AIT Instructor-PATRIOT Fire Control Enhanced Operator/Maintainer

  3. #23
    Senior Veteran Combloc's Avatar
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    Left side of the Gen 2 VNP-009 scope with front towards the left of frame:

    You read that right, this is a Gen2 unit and I believe it is most likely made in the Unites States or, at the very least, of US and British components. The entire front lens block is essentially identical to an AN/PVS-4 and all controls are in English. The feel and operation of it is also smoother and, for lack of a better term, more sophisticated than the Model F scope. The Quality of the image is also as good as US Gen 2 equipment of the era. The round lug with marked with an arrow and "RT" (the abbreviation for "RIGHT") is the windage adjustment and it clicks as you turn it with a coin or similar. Each click counterclockwise moves the point of impact 2.5cm to the right at 100m. The Spanish word for "Right" is "Dereche". Farther back, the two vertical tubes are the left side battery compartment which holds two AA batteries.


    Right side:

    On this side we see the right side battery compartment. It too holds two AA batteries.


    Top:

    Just as we have the windage adjustment on the left side, we have the elevation adjustment on top. "DN" means "DOWN". In Spanish "Down" is "Abajo". Each click counterclockwise will move the point of impact down by 2.5cm at 100m. Note that neither the windage nor elevation are quick adjustment knobs as they can only be adjusted by means of a tool (the manual says to use a coin and that makes sense because the slots are so wide that a regular screwdriver would be impractical). This thing was not meant for precision shooting but rather to be used against a man sized target at night. It is generally sighted in at a particular range and you use Kentucky windage and Arkansas elevation beyond that. There are some other things of interest in this picture but we'll look at those a bit closer in just a bit.


    Bottom:

    All we have going on here are the covers for the left and right side battery compartments and the NATO/STANAG adaptor mounted to the lugs molded into the scope body by way of two slotted screws. It is here we will begin looking at things in detail.


    Here we see a side detail of the rear lug and NATO adaptor:

    If you compare this adaptor to the one mounted on the Model F scope, you'll immediately see that it is different and purpose made for this scope. But, just as with the Model F, this scope can be mounted on different adaptors to be used in different applications. Towards the right of frame can be seen one of the splined cap screws used to mount the unit to the CETME LV. Just as on the Model F, these cap screws are also tightened using a 3/16" hex wrench.


    Here's a look at the bottom front of the NATO adaptor (the rear is an almost identical mirror image):

    Starting on the left, the two blocky finger-like projections fit over the front edge of the mounting point on the rifle to precisely locate it in the proper position front to back on the rifle.
    Moving right, we see the hex-head cap screw used to mount the unit on the rifle and then we come to the slotted screw used to attach the NATO adaptor to the scope. Also notice the two machined steps on either side of the cap screw, each running from front to back and ending in an inside radius. The purpose of these steps is to precisely align the adaptor side to side with the mounting point on the rifle.
    The adaptor on the scope and the mounting point on the rifle's rear sight base are so perfectly machined that there is absolutely NO movement front to rear or side to side when you fit them together. Theoretically, this means it will maintain zero no matter how many times the optic is removed and remounted. But we don't live in a theoretical world now do we? Please don't think I'm trying to bash this setup and I'm sure it works very well but I cannot help but think that repeated switching out of optics in a real world field setting is a less than ideal design. I just don't think it's very practical.

    If the above is at all confusing to you, just study the two pictures below. They show the bottom of the scope adaptor and the top of the mounting point on the rifle one after the other. By comparing them, you'll easily see how everything fits together:




    Here's a closeup of the left side battery box cover:

    The right side cover looks the same. It's marked for polarity so that you don't put the batteries in the wrong way around. The little ball chain keeps the cover tethered so you won't loose it. The phillips screw only serves to attach the chain and has nothing to do with holding the cover in place. However, the phillips screw IS screwed to the cover retaining device which is itself a thumb screw. Lots of screwing going on here...….
    To remove the cover, just loosen the thumbscrew by turning it counterclockwise a few times and off it comes:

    The thumb screw is captive and cannot be removed from the cover. Note that it is also off center. This prevents you from attaching the battery box cover the wrong way around. A rubber gasket is to the inside of the cover to seal the battery compartment.


    On top of the scope body, there are three controls. Facing towards the right side of the unit with markings visible from the rear is the power control knob

    It is shown in the "OFF" position (white dot and "0"). ALWAYS make sure that the knob is in this position before you insert batteries and ALWAYS ensure that it is returned to this position as soon as you are finished using the scope.
    --Turning the knob to the next position, a red dot and white "l", turns the intensifier tube on but the reticle lamp is still off. This position is used only for observation at night as you will see no aiming point. NEVER EVER turn the knob to this position without either the lens cover or the daylight filter set to Position 1 in place AND the GAIN knob turned to its lowest setting. If you turn the unit on in bright light, artificial or natural, without the lens cap or filter in place, you will, at a minimum, drastically reduce the life of the intensifier tube. Even worse, you may outright burn it out and trust me, you do not want to know the labor and expense of replacing it. You have been warned! As for the GAIN knob, keep reading for instructions regarding its use.
    --Turning the knob to the last position, a red dot and white "R", turns on both the intensifier tube and the reticle. This position is used for aiming and firing. NEVER turn the knob to this position unless heeding the warning above. Additionally, ensure that the reticle brightness knob is turned down to its lowest setting (keep reading for more on that).
    --When you are finished using the VNP-009, ALWAYS return the power knob to the "OFF" setting.


    Facing to the rear with identification markings visible from the left side are the RETICLE and GAIN knobs:

    The knob marked "RET" controls how bright the reticle is. Any time you are ready to turn the reticle on, make sure the knob is turned counterclockwise as far as possible first. This is the lowest intensity position. The knob has no detents and is infinitely adjustable. Turn the intensity up only as high as is needed to clearly see the reticle. If left at too high a setting for too long, it WILL damage the intensifier tube. When finished using the reticle ALWAYS return the knob to the lowest intensity setting.

    Here we see both the reticle brightness knob (on the left) and the GAIN adjustment knob (on the right) set to minimum:

    The GAIN adjustment is best described as a fine tuning knob for image intensity and contrast. In essence, it's a rheostat that adjusts how much power is supplied to the intensifier tube. Turning it clockwise raises the setting. The higher the setting, the more the photons entering the objective lens get amplified and the brighter the image. So why wouldn't you always want the brightest image? Well, out in the boonies with little ambient light, you do want the gain turned up. However, in a more urban area with more ambient light or on a moon lit cloudless ight, having the gain set way up may give you too bright an image resulting in a washed out image with little contrast. This is also hard on the intensifier tube. Consequently, ALWAYS have the GAIN knob at its lowest setting when you power on the scope and slowly turn it up until you have a clear image, no more. Additionally, ALWAYS return the GAIN knob to its lowest setting before powering down the scope.

    --IMPORTANT: ALWAYS set the GAIN first followed by the reticle.

    --IMPORTANT: ALWAYS store the scope with batteries removed, lens cover or daylight filter set to Position1 in place over the objective lens, power knob in the "OFF" position and both the GAIN and RETICLE knobs set to minimum. Additionally, place the VNP-009 in its nylon storage bag prior to placing it in the transit case.

    --NEVER point the scope at the sun even when powered off and, just to be safe, don't expose the objective lens to bright light for at least 15 minutes after switching the unit off just in case there is any residual power in the intensifier tube that needs to bleed off. Older Gen 0 and Gen 1 tubes held a charge for a while after being switched off and were still light sensitive. I don't think that's the case with a Gen 2 but it can't hurt to err on the side of caution.


    Follow the above directions and your VNP-009 will last you many, many hours of use. In fact, unless your are using the thing all night every night, it'll probably last your lifetime. Just always remember that every single photon the intensifier tube processes kills it just a little bit. These things have a finite lifespan no matter how much care you give them but there is no sense in being careless. Always think before touching any controls and really KNOW what you are doing before you do it.


    There is more to cover and we'll continue on in the next post but the above covers the most important topics with regards to not destroying your VNP-009. But I need to get to bed for now. I'll be back tomorrow or the next day.

  4. #24
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    Just a small correction my earlier explanation, after talking with the corporal in charge of handling our supply database:

    My supposition of EA as "Ejército del Aire" was not correct. In the Army computer system, it refers to a complete lot.
    So USUM: EA in that label says that the unit shipping the scope did so with all it's component parts and accessories (rings, mount, bag, manuals, etc.).

    There goes my theory... :-P

  5. #25
    Senior Veteran Combloc's Avatar
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    Thank you for following up Sampedro! Your input is always valued sir!!



    On the left side is an anti-idiot sticker in both Spanish and English:



    The aluminum identification label lists the model and serial number:



    A closeup of the elevation adjustment on top:



    And a detail shot of the windage adjustment on the side:



    The black circular doohickey in the center of the objective lens is the cover for the reticle housing and its associated electronics.:

    The cover can be removed for reticle bulb replacement or to switch out the reticle plate for a different pattern one depending on the use (i.e. rifle, anti-tank rocket, shoulder fired anti-aircraft missile, etc.). No, we're not going to disassemble that for kicks. To the right of frame you can see the windage adjustment rising from the side of the scope and a rod projecting out the back of it and into the reticle housing. Although you can't see it, the elevation adjustment is set up the exact same way.


    Here's a closeup of the internal adjustment rod referenced above:

    As you turn either the windage or elevation adjustment, the rod turns and moves the reticle plate either side to side and up or down. It's that simple.


    Although some of the reticles can get quite elaborate, the Spanish opted for a simple chevron and two horizontal lines:

    The manual makes absolutely no mention of the purpose for the horizontal lines and only references the chevron as the "aiming point". If the were going for minimalism, I'd say they achieved it!


    At the back of the scope you'll find, shockingly, an ocular lens so that you can see things:

    The rubber eyecup is just the right length to ensure proper eye relief.

    I've removed the eyecup here for clarity:

    There are two focusing adjustments back here; one for diopter adjustment and one for focus.

    Here is a more oblique and closeup view of those adjustments:

    The diopter adjustment is the rearmost of the two and rotates clockwise/counterclockwise. What you do is turn on the reticle with the objective lens cover in place and rotate the splined adjustment ring until the reticle is in sharp focus. Done.
    The other adjustment is the focus ring. It's the larger toothed one towards the front. It can be focused from 20m (about 66 ft.) out to infinity. For this one, all you need do is turn it one way or the other until what tyou are looking at is in sharp focus. Done. Most of the time, you're obviously going to have it on the infinity setting.


    In this picture, I've placed the eyecup over a flashlight to highlight the fact that is has a vent hole in it so that you don't suction your eye to the thing like you can with the Model F eyecup:



    A front comparison view showing just how big the Gen 2 VNP-009 is compared to the Model F:



    The length between the two is almost the same though:

    "Owning the night" is a large, heavy affair!


    I forgot I took the following two photos and I should have fit them in earlier sorry about that.
    The first one clearly shows that the mounting cap screws are compatible with either a hex wrench (3/16") or a torx bit (T20):


    The second is a general closeup of two of the cap screws and their lock washers:

    The one on the left is from the Model F and uses a more common style lock washer while the other is from the VNP-009 and uses a toothed one.

  6. #26
    Senior Veteran Combloc's Avatar
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    All this talk of rifles and scopes is useless unless you see what the stuff looks like together. While the LV was intended to be used with the ENOSA getups we looked at above, the fact is, pretty much anything that is STANAG compatible will work just fine. Let's look at some examples.

    We'll start with the ENOSA Model F.
    Left side:


    Right side:


    Front oblique:


    And rear oblique:

    Various places now, I've read where people complain about how high the scope sits. Well, I got news for you......at that time, this was generally considered normal. No, you don't get a cheek weld when using the optic BUT you can still use the irons is necessary and that was generally a government requirement. Besides, these were meant to be used as marksman's rifles, NOT sniper rifles. Not matter hw low the scope is mounted or how good the trigger is (and these had stock triggers), you were only going to get standard rifle accuracy out of these things. The point of the scope was to be able to engage at slightly longer distances.
    For comparison purposes (and this is FAR from scientific!), let's look at the rise on the LV compared to a few of its western contemporaries:
    First the LV again:

    An HK:

    SIG 510:

    And finally, an Armalite AR180:

    I should have thrown a Colt in there too but I somehow forgot. Anywho, ALL of these rifles have significant rise but that was normal back then. You get used to it.


    Next up it the ENOSA VNP-009.
    Left side:


    Right side:


    Front oblique:


    Rear oblique:


    Straight on:

    It's a biggun'. In the 80's, they were all big!


    So you say you don't have an ENOSA. That's OK because these rifles work very well with one of the easy to find and plentiful surplus G3 scopes floating around. This next one is a Karl Kaps 4x jobber that I bought some years ago cheap. They have gone up some in price but they are still very reasonable considering the Quality. These things are so well built, your grandkids will be using them! This one is also now zeroed to the rifle and it's what I'll be using in the spring for some accuracy testing.
    Left side:


    Right side:


    Front oblique:


    Rear oblique:

    Now, this scope is calibrated to the 7.62 NATO round so the distance setting will only be accurate at the range I've zeroed it to but that's OK because this thing is a range you anyways. These scopes were made with 5.56 ballistic cams but they are rare. Mr. Estes Adams used to make replicas of the cams but, sadly, he has passed on to his next life. He was a good man. May God grant him the peace he has earned.


    This next one is a West German surplus Gen 1 Z51 night vision scope. These babies are SCHWEEET! Built to last with a picture Quality approaching that of a Gen 2 unit, they are a bit hard to find but prices are quite reasonable when you find them. I can tell you from experience, these jobbers sit so high that they are most comfortable using the opposite eye you are used to using. It's weird at first but once you get used to it, the reliable Z51 works like a charm.
    Left side:


    Right side:


    Front oblique:


    Rear oblique:


    Straight on:

    HEAVY baby....HEAVY!!!


    This next one is an enigma. Rumor has it that this thing was designed and built to be smuggled into East Germany for clandestine use by anti-communist dissidents who called themselves the Neuwerwolffreiheitskampher Bataillon and the rifle with scope was known as the Werwolfs Nachtjagergerat M1945
    Here's the left side:


    Right side:


    Shown with illumination lamp battery replicating the illustration in the uber top secret manual which I just happen to have a copy of:


    Front oblique:


    Rear oblique:


    Straight on:

    Of course, all I just posted about this thing was 100% completely fabricated for no other reason than to be goofy. In reality, this unit is a Gen 0 B8-V built by Zeiss-Eltro back in the 1960's. While it's heavy, cumbersome and you are literally tethered to your rifle by way of the belt mounted 6V power pack for the illumination lamp, it was cutting edge back in its day and the image quality is surprisingly good even today. It might be crude but it works!


    Of course, you may want a more modern option than any shown here for your CETME LV. Well, all you need to do is buy yourself a STANAG to Picatinny adapter online and BLAMMO!!! You can then use whatever modern optic you want. Unfortunately, I don't have a picture of one of those adaptors.....I'm old school buddy!!!


    Well, that's it for now. The LV was a modern rifle back in the 80's. Yes, it's antiquated by today's standards but it shouldn't be judged by those. Instead, it should be looked at for what it is, a faithful reproduction of the original CETME LV. So long as you remember why MCM reproduced it, you'll be a happy fellow for buying one. An added bonus is that, if my guess is correct, these will increase in value significantly as the years pass. Simply put, if you buy one expecting it to compete with today's modern optic ready rifes, you're going to be sorely disappointed. BUT, if you buy one for the love of retro and, to a lesser degree, investment purposes, you're going to have a grin on your face every time you pick up your little LV buddy. My advice is to buy it!!


    MarColMar is in the process of producing the Model LV/s which is a reproduction of the rifle built specifically for the Spanish Marines and comes complete with a 4x SUSAT scope. Of course I want one and when I get my hands on it, I'll post it here as an addendum. Until that time, I hope to see you at the range! Be safe, be happy and tell your Mom you love her; she deserves it!!

    Thanks Mom......for everything!!
    Last edited by Combloc; 01-25-2020 at 12:40 AM.

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